On US Government, Discussing Hiroshima and Nagasaki Bombings

(Copied from Listverse comments section because I couldn’t upload screen shots):

Nuclear warfare has its uses though, without it, the US would have lost hundreds of thousands of more lives in Japan and a large scale land-war would be likely have erupted between the US and the USSR in place of the Cold War. 

Disagree with the first, but agree with the second. We would have just blockaded the island, without external resources Japan was ineffective.

While the “Cold War” was bad in many way, I agree the reason it stayed Cold and didn’t become a land based conflict is thanks to Nukes.

“We would have just blockaded the island, without external resources Japan was ineffective.”

Source?

And may I know your source as well(hoping against chance that it is not a biased article written by an American or an American-devotee like you justifying the atomic attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaki)?

I find it disturbing that the American citizens have come to accept what must have been fed to them by their dominating government, which still tends to act as a dictator of the world

“And may I know your source as well”

Here is one for starters:

http://www.pcf.city.hiroshima….

Though common sense should be enough.
You also chose the wrong place to vent your anti-American butthurt, may I suggest this website:

http://hateusa.narod.ru/

 

Is that all you could come up with? If you think I hate the US just because I am not an American, then you are seriously mistaken, my friend.

The latter link shows your ignorance that a person who is not a supporter of American actions can’t have an opinion. That is my opinion and I stand by it because my morality hasn’t blinded me and hasn’t led me to ignore the common sense that the atom bombs harmed innocent pupils. The propagator of Human Rights has wreaked havoc over the mankind since years past. US government “butts in” and that is one main reason that we are still living in such terrible times as a result of this Unipolar world order.

I would quote from your link: “The U.S. believed that if the atomic bomb could end the war, Soviet influence after the war would be restricted and domestically the tremendous cost of development would be justified.” Did the US think about the population of Japan because as far as I know and understand, the Emperor was not the embodiment of the entire population of Japan. Why was it alright to bomb Japanese cities to stop the influence of Soviet Union? Again from your link: “After spring 1945, with Japan in an extremely weak position, the United States was considering the following ways of bringing the long war to an end: invade the Japanese mainland in November 1945.” If Japan was already weak, then what was the need of even thinking about conquering the country. Did the American government want to satiate its blood thirst?

And for your kind information, I don’t hate anyone. I just can’t bear the mistakes of the US government which are deemed necessary by so many… just because it is the great government of USA, the world superpower. I have no personal ill-will with the country, nor with its citizens. 

” If you think I hate the US just because I am not an American, then you are seriously mistaken, my friend.”

You called the United States Government disturbed, “dominating” and a “dictator”. Hardly sounds as if you like them.

“The latter link”

The latter link was chosen as a joke to mock you, and should be judged with that in mind.

” If Japan was already weak, then what was the need of even thinking about conquering the country.”

Weak in this context means having lost all of it its captured islands, and some of its supplies. The entire Japanese population would have fought tooth and nail for every last inch of their island, so that is why the bombing was a better alternative for the US, but not necessarily right from a moral standpoint.

As to the rest of your comment, this is not a debate about the “morality” of the atomic bombings, I was only sharing with you what would likely have happened if the bombings had not taken place.


 

I know, you’re wondering what is this? Today, I got into a discussion about the nuclear attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaki on a nuke-related list on Listverse. If you’ve read my statements, let me tell you that I have made some wonderful contacts on wordpress with some American bloggers and I like them and respect them a lot.

If you think I am criticizing the people or nation of US like Nathaniel felt, let me clarify that I am actually criticizing the US government and its policies and actions and not the people. And here is my last reply to Nathaniel which I’d like all of you to read as well. I know, it has turned out to be a big post but it is significant.

Dear Nathaniel,

You still seem to dwell in the era of Ancient Greek when politics meant both nation and state and there was seen no difference between the nation and a state. But dear friend, modern political philosophers definitely realized a difference between the two. Let me specify it to you briefly:

A Nation is referred to as a group of people who are interlinked with a bond so strong that they feel compelled to stay together on a particular geographical area or beyond and support each other and they are frustrated,when separated or controlled by an outer force. Nation encompasses the psychological connection of people.

A State on the other hand is build up of four components: People, Land, Government and Sovereignty.

Dear friend, as a result of confusion between nation and state, you tend to forget the difference between people and government. I tend to love people of not only US, but the entire world and I quite dislike US government which you even mentioned correctly but failed to realize:

(Nathaniel’s statement, from above)

“You called the United States Government disturbed, “dominating” and a “dictator”. Hardly sounds as if you like them.”

Yes, I repeat that the United States Government is dominating. But isn’t it well known? May be the use of the word, “dictator”, was ill-mannered. I apologize because I was a little emotionally charged while typing my reply to you. Okay, I agree that I don’t like US Government.

Now let me ask you some questions, in context of our discussion as well as the tragic event we were discussing about:

1. With a silly link that you posted for my kind reference: http://hateusa.narod.ru/, which you later regarded as a way of mocking me, I feel sorry that the topic of our discussion was so comical to you. We are talking of murder of so many people and you tend to regard it as a joke. May I ask you, what did you find so funny about the points that I put forth that you judged me about my opinion and provided me with such a silly link?

2. First you mention that the US government had two choices: 1. Nuclear Attack on Japan, or 2. Conquering Japan by land. You provided a link(comparatively sensible one) to support your statement. When I quoted from that link provided by you regarding the fact that Japan was too weak and I further suggested that there was thus no need of trying out ways to punish Japan by way of bombing it or conquering by land as an alternative, you mention that, “The entire Japanese population would have fought tooth and nail for every last inch of their island, so that is why the bombing was a better alternative for the US”. Would you share your thoughts as regarding why was it so necessary to crumble Japan from within? The war was almost won. Was there really any sensible reason to drop nuclear bombs on those two cities according to you? According to me, there wasn’t any. There could have been other ways to make the Empire fall down and not the people. I hope you won’t confuse Empire/Govt. with people again.

3. Here comes the question of morality. When I apply my notions of morality in determining what I consider to be the common-sense(which you earlier suggested that I lacked) that the direct implication of those bombs was on the people, you state in the end that our discussion is not about morality and that you were “informing” me of what would have happened(as in the loss of life of a large number of people in the bid of US govt. to conquer the territory of Japan) if what actually happened(the nuclear bombs dropped on the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki which claimed many lives) didn’t happen. I ask you, why not? The society, the government, the people prod us to use our morality in our actions. Why shouldn’t we talk about morality in case of such a serious discussion? Was US government’s decision to drop those bombs a moral one? I don’t know of a specific answer for the second question because I have only read about in books. I was not there, then, at that point, neither am I a high scholar who is an expert of that time… but I am a person and my heart beats and it condemns what happened. That was terrible. And you have produced an ambiguous source behind your statements but that source doesn’t explain… why was it so necessary for the US to cripple Japan and makes me question if it was only a method of the US political leaders to declare their power, their dominance over the world.

* You may not agree with my thoughts but that is alright. I won’t “mock” what you have to say about it. Please do share your viewpoints because it would only add into my understanding and help me realize or further question, what was the necessity behind that action!?

** I apologize profusely for being a little too critical in the comments shared on Listverse. I was emotionally charged and that is all I have to say.

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15 thoughts on “On US Government, Discussing Hiroshima and Nagasaki Bombings

  1. I wish I could help you, but I am emotionaly overcharged. I have nothing against anyone based on their nationality, religion, place of living etc, but if there is goverment mentioned, I tend to become fiesty.

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    • Me too. I respect every culture, every country of the world. These people who rule these countries tend to oversimplify things and they uphold their actions to be correct. It is not just the US government but governments of other countries as well, who sometimes become the hidden source of terror that makes life a tragedy.
      My own country is in a political turmoil right now, as I analyze it. Many of my fellow citizens are not seeing it because the politicians weave this magical spell that hinders us from seeing.
      I’m not in favor of anarchy, monarchy, communism or a fascist government but sometimes, I do feel that democracy hasn’t provided what it promised. It only propagates the rule of the people, by the people and for the people but the reality is quite different. A handful of powerful people(politicians, bureaucrats, big corporations and industrialists) rule, while we look at them with a devotion and belief that it is for our own good. And that makes me feel really sad.

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  2. Understanding that conflict requires understanding two things.

    1. Americans all receive a civic education, to a degree. It is shockingly, embarrassingly poor in some areas, like understanding how government works or how to engage the democratic process as anything other than as a voter every 1-4 years. One area in which it is fairly consistent, though, is in teaching a certain historical narrative vis a vis World War II. So, when you discuss this, you are going to have to fight alot of baked-in sentiment (you might say propaganda) that will tend to slant arguments.
    2. The American political landscape of the past fifteen years or so does not lend itself to measured discussions of contentious issues with strangers. People are so widely worked up with this issue or that – gun control, marriage equality, the Iraq war, abortion, etc – that it’s hard for them to calm down and disavow themselves of the tunnel vision that living in a self-constructed echo chamber will tend to foster. As a result, people resort to insults and trolling, even when someone is genuinely trying to approach an issue in a respectful way.

    I have my own opinions on this as an American, and we can talk about those if you want, but I hope that at least helps you understand where that conversation went off the rails and why.

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    • That is definitely enlightening. Thank you for your comment because it at least has satiated my inquisitiveness in knowing why many people post the very same thing that Nathaniel mentioned(regarding the only choice between bombings or conquering by land)on every Second World War or related list on Listverse. I always cringe at reading such sentiments and this time, I tried to talk. Yes, I was bitter at times but it was just my frustration that oozed out of my words.

      Thank you once again for providing me with this new insight.

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  3. I am an American living abroad. I can say the media in the States is very misleading it really only shows a view point that is favorable to the government/church. Freedom of speech and freedom of the press are illusions. For example when the US bombs countries, they first villainize and dehumanize the people of that specific region. They do not talk about how in war that it is the innocent civilians that are being killed not the “powers”. No one wants to think of all the children being killed so they are quick to accept the lies. Many countries employ this tactic with soldiers they desensitize them because otherwise they would choke in battle (the US government uses this method on its citizens). In regards to other countries we receive almost no education and I believe this is to avoid sympathetic connections. Most Americans can’t even identify other countries on a map. The government uses fear tactics and stereotypes as well if we don’t get rid of this threat they will kill all your children. Democracy is a farce (the idea is good but it is not functional in the US) the citizen vote counts for little and actually has very little baring on the elected officials. We are taught that it is unpatriotic to dissent, so to speak against and fight against any aspect of governmental injustice makes people think you are against the USA. For example I could say I don’t like how people have to pay for their education and how we have to start our adult lives in severe debilitating debt but a statement like that will be generalized very quickly. If you are not American a statement like that will be generalized as Anti-American much more rapidly but even if American you won’t really get away with it maybe in casual conversation but if you attempted to institute change and gained any momentum you could end up in a very dangerous situation.America is run by an elite group there are huge class distinctions. The poorer you are the more taxes you have to pay. They actually turn children down for care that will die otherwise over money and insurance. Getting insurance is incredibly difficult (your health record has to be immaculate practically) and it is super expensive.There are many kind-hearted people in the US certainly but the government isn’t run by them. The government is focused on money and power.

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    • I forgot to say history is written by the victor so it is very distorted. In school we do not learn the truth of what happened to the Native Americans. We learn Benjamin Franklin was a great man and don’t even hear about Tesla or about all the scheming and stealing Benjamin Franklin did. Our history books are tailored I mean to an extreme. With the internet this is becoming issue because we can look up outside sources but you better believe there is censorship and that drastic measures will be taken by the powers

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      • And that is how the entire political system works. The truth is deliberately hidden. The war is not of the people, but of the governments and in the end, it wounds people.
        Your comment made me realize that what we see is so different than what actually exists within. They call communism a failed idea but democracy is as well failed in many respects. Even its theory is conflicting. It propagates capitalism and an egalitarian society at the same time.
        And the way governments manipulate people into trusting their actions makes me wonder that even the government comes out to be made of people. Then, what is this thing that allows people to forget basic humanity? Is it power that diminishes every other emotion and feeling?
        It sometimes gives me headache when I think about it.

        Thanks for sharing your knowledge and opinion.

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        • It is really because as you say Democracy at least the American interpretation is not really for the people at all. In order to gain political power you have to be wealthy already. I mean I could never afford to promote myself politically if I had such a desire so from the very onset there is exclusion of all but the wealthiest members of society

          Well they say power corrupts and I believe there is something to that. If you were given magic powers (silly example I know) how long before you started to use them to gratify your own needs? When I say you I don’t mean you I mean people. I do not think everyone would turn over to the temptation but the people pursuing those powers the elite are often psychopaths. Psychopathic traits are really coveted and encouraged in certain fields.

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          • Indeed. We find psychopaths especially among industrialists and entrepreneurs and of course, the political leaders. And it is true that most political leaders wear golden boots and the power corrupts them in a major way.
            So, what does this all imply for us? Are we to live a life at the base, for ourselves and our close ones, wishing that we will not become prey to the wrath or come in the way of those elite ones?
            I was seeing a news story about a person who was almost killed because he tried to raise his voice against the corrupt system and the people ruling it. I feel sad and angry.
            That makes me question, are we really free… to speak, to ask, to do?

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            • I admit I wonder how much of our freedom is really just denial and illusion. I also admit that I don’t know the solution but I do know that we are the majority and the elite are in the minority so it seems if people worked together something might transform. I admit in Sweden I am much less fearful of speaking out

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              • Yes,the collectivism definitely matters. Because we are in majority with varied interests, there is where things go wrong. Those that at the top want power and even though, they are rivals to each other but in the end, they get along.
                And we, the common people, run in diverse directions to achieve what we think is moral and right. Here, we had a sort of mini-revolution when a new political party propagating the actual rule of the people came into power at the capital region, making a government at the territorial level and the party in power for the last 15 years was dethroned but they did not succeed. Their leader resigned within three months, and here, we are now again choosing between two corrupt political parties. The elections are done with, the result is on 16th but we already know what the result is going to be like. The biggest opposition party for the last 10 years is going to come into power… because the people had to get rid of the corrupt party in power right now but we are bringing in a communal and equally if not more corrupt party into power.
                This political drama is going to go on.

                And I’m glad that you can speak out to a certain extent in Sweden. It is good because it is necessary. 🙂

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                • You are so right about the majority running off in different directions.

                  I am sad to hear your country is in such a predicament. Choosing between 2 evils hardly seems a choice at all. In Sweden they have all sort of political parties any citizen can form one and have their say. So if my husband wanted to he could start one. I like some things about Sweden. They are environmental there are no landfills and they import trash from Norway to use for heating. They are big on recycling. Healthcare is totally free for children (cheap for adults), dental care too. My husband works with a man who has a child with a heart condition who had to go to Stockholm for care and the health care system paid for hotels, helicopter rides every aspect of the child’s care not just the obvious medical costs. I could have never gotten such care for my daughter in the states which is part of why we moved. Free education as well and better education. There is a lot more freedom of speech and significantly less censorship and such. Lower crime rates they’ve been closing prisons down for lack of criminals. Less traffic accidents a lot less than where I am from. There are of course unfortunate aspects as well the bureaucracy is insane lots of paperwork. Very little variety people’s homes look the same inside, the beauty ordnance prevents you from too much external modification of your residence, all the restaurants have the same food. So there are certainly some hangups I am regarded as an eccentric as is my husband so we quite stand out even without trying or making a fuss. So I suppose I do feel a bit outside you know? There just isn’t that community spirit like where I am from originally where neighbors know and look out for each other. So the uniformity is actually rather isolating. It is weird to have a society that is uniform but not based on the group but on the individual. So like if Sam went to the doctor they’d be like suck it up you are a man. My daughter on the other hand is treated extremely well. Me I am just well no one understands anything I say in the doctor’s office because doctors unlike everyone else in Sweden have horrendous English.

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                  • I get an idea from your words that the Swedish are practical in nature. But it is great what they are doing regarding the waste. I am, on the other hand, living in the most polluted city of the world right now.
                    And I heard about them closing down those prisons. A great achievement, I would say because our prisons have more population than what they were actually built to shelter. Sometimes, the country’s administration seems to be like a big joke.
                    But one thing that Sweden lacks and here we have in abundance is a lot of fun. Have you ever seen outside your window and found some women trying to beat down a shopkeeper and the cop silently gazing at the spectacle? Well, there you go… and to tackle the vehicle congestion, you need to find your way through a maze of tiny spaces where you may even get stuck. Have you ever wondered if your neighbor is keeping an eye on you? Well, that is a common occurrence here.

                    I am sorry but I just couldn’t control. I had to laugh and may be it made you laugh as well.
                    And I find the education and health policy of Sweden really admirable. And I can understand the difficulty you must face because of the language difference. But overall, it sounds like a cool country to live in.
                    And if you ask about mine, I can write a book but still, I won’t be able to explain.
                    😀

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                    • I would love to hear more about your country and I love the stories you shared!

                      I do actually have a funny story. A young man broke into a grocery recently with a wheelbarrow and stole only the cheapest chocolate bars! Swedes love sweets so it is like Candy Land or something. They have something called fika basically a pause in the day to drink tea or coffee and have sweets. I was with my in-law’s on the road and all of a sudden it is time for fika and we are in literally in the middle of nowhere so I am thinking we will have to wait. Sam’s mom pulls into the woods and Sam and I are totally confused and there in the middle of nowhere a cafe for fika?! You’d think it would be easier to stay trim in Sweden but long winters, lots of sweets, and too much sauce on everything it is harder I find!

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                    • It is great to know about each other’s countries and cultures.
                      I can understand the weight related woes because we eat a lot of greasy food as well. As for sweets, my countrymen have a sweet tooth… especially in the part where I live in, we take a pack of some or the other sweet while visiting others… this culture is a little fading now though.
                      And it is actually funny that he would break into the store for those chocolate bars.
                      Food indeed defines culture and the people as well… it is a necessity for which we all share a common love. It represents a country or a region as much as its people. 🙂

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